• site home
  • blog home
  • galleries
  • contact
  • underwater
  • the bleeding edge

the last word

Photography meets digital computer technology. Photography wins -- most of the time.

You are here: Home / a7III / Debunking false claims about Sony a7III PDAF striping

Debunking false claims about Sony a7III PDAF striping

May 16, 2018 JimK 6 Comments

A week or so ago, I published a FAQ about the Sony PDAF striping phenomenon that people noticed with some Sony a7III images. I had previously posted a little essay on tribalism in which I talked about two tribal reactions to the a7III striping.

  • The striping on the a7III is a fatal flaw. You can never know when and where it will occur, and all the fixes are a PITA and impair quality. Don’t buy this camera, and everybody who says something different has a hidden agenda.
  • The striping on the a7III occurs only on a specific set of lenses under an extremely rare set of clearly-identifiable circumstances. In the incredibly-unlikely circumstance that it should occur, there are fixes that will remove it perfectly.  It’s a nearly-perfect camera, and everybody who says something different has a hidden agenda.

Since the publication of my FAQ, events have unfolded as predicted, and several false claims have emerged. From the fatal flaw camp, the ones predominate are misidentification of real or perceived anomalies in images as PDAF striping. This is a familiar pattern; it occurred with depressing regularity with respect to bogus compression artifacts in the era before Sony offered uncompressed raw files on a7x cameras. In the case of compression artifacts, some of the confusion appeared to be genuine, and many did not take the time and effort to understand what the “bar-code” artifacts from the delta-modulation portion of the craw compression algorithm looked like, or the circumstances under which they were likely to occur. Another false claim is the exaggeration along the lines of “all sunset pictures will be striped.”

From the “move along, nothing to see here” group, the falsehoods have been more varied.

Only one or two lenses can cause striping.   Not remotely true, although Some lenses are more prone to this issue than others. In fact, I haven’t yet found a lens that can never cause the artifacts. I thought that I had one in the Sony 12-24/4 zoom, but right after I posted that information, someone showed me a striped image made with that lens.

To get them, you must intentionally light the scene to provoke the artifacts. The backlit lens-flare look that allows the PDAF striping to occur is not commonly employed by amateurs, but now that the PDAF striping issue has raised my consciousness, I see it again and again in advertising and professional portrait and wedding work. Either it is trendy now, or it’s always been there and I haven’t noticed.

It’s easy to fix the artifacts, so you shouldn’t worry about them. There are two levels on which this is deceptive. First, although it’s easy to fix the stripes even after demosaicing if there is little detail in the striped areas, a robust solution needs to take place before demosaicing. There are at least two beta-level pre-demosaicing fixes, but one is browser based and the other is part of an excellent, but little-used raw developer, Raw Therapee.  But the important fact left out of the above claim is this: you must find the artifacts before you can fix them. Often, the stripes are not readily apparent at the magnifications normally employed in image editing. (I have written a program to find striping in images, but it’s not available to the public and is prone to false positives in real-world images.) Absent unusual vigilance on the part of the photographer (eg, inspecting each candidate image at 1:1 or greater), it would be easy to send flawed files or prints to a customer. If you’re an amateur you can reprint or resend if you or whoever sees your work discovers a problem. If your reputation and livelihood depend on perfect files every time, you can’t take that chance. Once an art director finds a flaw in a file (or worse, doesn’t find the flaw before it gets to the press) she’s not going to trust you. In a competitive environment, she’ll have many other photographers to pick from next time. Bad news. She’ll probably network with other ADs. Worse news.

You need to print big to see the striping. If the striping is bad and you look carefully, you can see it in 8×10 inch prints. In 13x20s, it’s not hard to see at all, although it may not jump out at you.

This whole PDAF striping thing is fake news, and not a big deal. There’s truth there, but the statement is overgeneralized. For the preponderance of photographers, almost all the time, this is nothing to worry about. You’ll probably never provoke the striping, you probably won’t see it if it’s in your files, even if it’s there it won’t show up at web resolution, and if you find it in a print, you can always fix the file and reprint. But there are people for whom the striping is not only a big deal, but it’s a big enough deal to make them choose another camera for some of their work.

My recommendation is that photographers who meet all the following criteria not use the a7III (or the a9, or, to a lesser extent, the a7RIII):

  • Your livelihood and your reputation rests on nearly-perfect results
  • You regularly employ lens flare in your images
  • Your output medium has greater than web resolution.

If you don’t meet all the criteria above, then you are likely to enjoy the image quality

As I’ve said before, in terms of impact on most photographers in comparison to some of Sony’s other artifact-inducing quirks, I rank PDAF striping as follows:

  1. A7R shutter shock. The a7R shutter shock earns the dubious distinction of first place here because, although the effects are blurring, as opposed to out-and-out ugliness, they occur in many situations. Both craw compression and PDAF striping produce ugly artifacts, with PDAF striping the more objectionable.
  2. Sony raw compression, PDAF striping (tie). Both craw compression and PDAF striping produce ugly artifacts, with PDAF striping the more objectionable. The tie results from the fact that it’s easier to inadvertently generate compression artifacts than PDAF striping. Neither one is particularly easy to trigger.
  3. Star-eater filtering. The star-eater filter only eats stars if there are single-pixel (or nearly so) stars to be eaten, and a missing or wrongly-colored stars is not something most folks care about. That means that the filtering only adversely affects serious astrophotographers, who should probably choose another camera.

 

 

 

a7III

← Cross-polarization demo Atmospheric thermal turbulence demo →

Comments

  1. Haos says

    May 17, 2018 at 2:35 am

    Thank you James, for being a voice of reason in this world way too often ruled by fanboys of different brands. Used your articles in discussions on cameras multiple times, so I just wanted to drop in to share my appreciation for your hard work.

    Reply
    • Erik Kaffehr says

      May 17, 2018 at 7:39 am

      Hi,

      Agreed on that! Jim’s analysis takes a lot of efforts. I am much impressed with his work.

      Best regards
      Erik

      Reply
  2. CK says

    May 24, 2018 at 10:14 pm

    This is nuts. It’s a deeply technical indictment of the camera, followed by a blase’, subjective and even obtuse set of rules to apply that indictment. The Everybody needs perfect pictures, and everybody outputs at more than web resolution, and anybody might have lens flare, the idea “employs lens flare” is understandable, but a bizarre parameter. It just happens.

    Strange, so much effort and expertise right up to the conclusion then the study just falls apart.

    Reply
    • JimK says

      May 25, 2018 at 6:28 am

      I will not surprise you that I disagree, for reasons that are embedded in the post. However, feeling as you do, I advise you not to purchase the camera.

      Reply
  3. peterb says

    June 14, 2018 at 3:00 am

    Thanks for that explanation. I’ve only recently purchased a Sony A7RIII and at the same time took an interest in astro photography. When I heard of this issue i got a bit concerned but in looking at some of the pictures I have taken, if I had any more stars in the shot I would have a white screen.

    Would it be possible to present a couple of “typical” shots that demonstrate this issue. It seems that for me who doesn’t want to publish their pictures on the side of a building its a bit of a non event but I would be interested in seeing the impact if that is possible.

    Reply
    • JimK says

      June 14, 2018 at 6:51 am

      Is this a question about PDAF striping? If so, this is not an issue that would affect astrophotography, except maybe, just maybe, solar work.

      Here’s an example:

      https://blog.kasson.com/a7iii/sony-a7iii-testing-and-tribalism/

      Reply

Leave a Reply Cancel reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

May 2025
S M T W T F S
 123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
25262728293031
« Apr    

Articles

  • About
    • Patents and papers about color
    • Who am I?
  • How to…
    • Backing up photographic images
    • How to change email providers
    • How to shoot slanted edge images for me
  • Lens screening testing
    • Equipment and Software
    • Examples
      • Bad and OK 200-600 at 600
      • Excellent 180-400 zoom
      • Fair 14-30mm zoom
      • Good 100-200 mm MF zoom
      • Good 100-400 zoom
      • Good 100mm lens on P1 P45+
      • Good 120mm MF lens
      • Good 18mm FF lens
      • Good 24-105 mm FF lens
      • Good 24-70 FF zoom
      • Good 35 mm FF lens
      • Good 35-70 MF lens
      • Good 60 mm lens on IQ3-100
      • Good 63 mm MF lens
      • Good 65 mm FF lens
      • Good 85 mm FF lens
      • Good and bad 25mm FF lenses
      • Good zoom at 24 mm
      • Marginal 18mm lens
      • Marginal 35mm FF lens
      • Mildly problematic 55 mm FF lens
      • OK 16-35mm zoom
      • OK 60mm lens on P1 P45+
      • OK Sony 600mm f/4
      • Pretty good 16-35 FF zoom
      • Pretty good 90mm FF lens
      • Problematic 400 mm FF lens
      • Tilted 20 mm f/1.8 FF lens
      • Tilted 30 mm MF lens
      • Tilted 50 mm FF lens
      • Two 15mm FF lenses
    • Found a problem – now what?
    • Goals for this test
    • Minimum target distances
      • MFT
      • APS-C
      • Full frame
      • Small medium format
    • Printable Siemens Star targets
    • Target size on sensor
      • MFT
      • APS-C
      • Full frame
      • Small medium format
    • Test instructions — postproduction
    • Test instructions — reading the images
    • Test instructions – capture
    • Theory of the test
    • What’s wrong with conventional lens screening?
  • Previsualization heresy
  • Privacy Policy
  • Recommended photographic web sites
  • Using in-camera histograms for ETTR
    • Acknowledgments
    • Why ETTR?
    • Normal in-camera histograms
    • Image processing for in-camera histograms
    • Making the in-camera histogram closely represent the raw histogram
    • Shortcuts to UniWB
    • Preparing for monitor-based UniWB
    • A one-step UniWB procedure
    • The math behind the one-step method
    • Iteration using Newton’s Method

Category List

Recent Comments

  • JimK on Calculating reach for wildlife photography
  • Geofrey on Calculating reach for wildlife photography
  • JimK on Calculating reach for wildlife photography
  • Geofrey on Calculating reach for wildlife photography
  • Javier Sanchez on The 16-Bit Fallacy: Why More Isn’t Always Better in Medium Format Cameras
  • Mike MacDonald on Your photograph looks like a painting?
  • Mike MacDonald on Your photograph looks like a painting?
  • bob lozano on The 16-Bit Fallacy: Why More Isn’t Always Better in Medium Format Cameras
  • JimK on Goldilocks and the three flashes
  • DC Wedding Photographer on Goldilocks and the three flashes

Archives

Copyright © 2025 · Daily Dish Pro On Genesis Framework · WordPress · Log in

Unless otherwise noted, all images copyright Jim Kasson.