• site home
  • blog home
  • galleries
  • contact
  • underwater
  • the bleeding edge

the last word

Photography meets digital computer technology. Photography wins -- most of the time.

You are here: Home / The Last Word / Another medium tele test — measuring focus shift

Another medium tele test — measuring focus shift

February 20, 2016 JimK 8 Comments

This is a continuation of a test of the following lenses on the Sony a7RII:

  • Zeiss 85mm f/1.8 Batis.
  •  Zeiss 85mm f/1.4 Otus.
  • Leica 90mm f/2 Apo Summicron-M ASPH.
  • AF-S Nikkor 85mm f/1.4 G.
  • Sony 90mm f/2.8 FE Macro.

The test starts here.

In my lens testing, I have been focusing wide open no matter the f-stop in use for making the exposure. SLR lenses are designed to be used that way, and the best ones don’t shift the focus point as you stop down. But mirrorless lenses aren’t necessarily designed to minimize focus shift, and there have been a couple of places in this test where it looked like the Batis and the Sony macro had a material amount of such shift. It just isn’t credible that the Batis is sharpest at f/2, for example.

It occurred to me that the motorized rail setup that I’m starting to use for the LoCA testing would be an ideal tool for three things:

  • measuring the amount of focus shift in a lens
  • providing, through automated trial and error, repeatable MTF results with top-notch lenses, a feat that had eluded me
  • finding the best MTF for each f/stop

I mounted a Sony a7RII to the Cognisys computer-driven focusing rail. I set the controller up to use 156mm of travel and make 40 exposures 4mm apart. I set the assembly 3.3 meters from the target, mounted a Sony 90mm f/2.8G macro lens, and made a set of images at each whole f-stop save f/22.. I developed the sets in DCRAW using AHD, and had it convert the files to 16-bit sRGB TIFFs. I told Imatest to calculate the on-axis MTF50 for luminance for a horizontal edge, and plotted the results  in cycles per picture height vs distance from the point furthest away from the target.

Here’s what I got:

xony all mm

The blue f/2.8 curve peaks at 1000 cy/ph. The red f/4 curve peaks at 1400 cy/ph 40mm closer to the target. If the camera were focused at f/2.8 and left there for an f/4 exposure, it would look like the lens could only do 1200 cy/ph. It gets worse. The gray f/5.6 curve also peaks at 1400 cy/ph, but 64mm closer to the target than the f/2.8 peak. If the camera were focused at f/2.8 and left there for an f/5.6exposure, it would look like the lens could only do 1100 cy/ph. F/8 is not as critical, but the peak is at about the same place as f/5.6, and the error is less than 100 cy/ph. By f/11 it doesn’t matter where you focus within the range of the rail.

As you can see, this calls into question all the MTF numbers I’ve already posted for this lens, and makes me suspicious of the numbers I’ve posted for the other four lenses that I haven’t yet tested in the manner described in this post.

It also appears that I want to increase the amount of travel I’m using with the Cognisys rail up to close to the maximum of about 200mm. I’m also considering changing my wide-open focus point on the rail from about mid-travel to a point further back. However, at this point I only know that these this lens focuses closer as it is stopped down. I don’t know if the other four behave the same way.

It’s too bad that this testing at multiple distances is so time consuming and eats up so much disk space.

 

The Last Word

← Another medium tele test — toward a direct LoCA metric Another medium tele test — Otus & Nikkor focus shift →

Comments

  1. David Braddon-Mitchell says

    February 20, 2016 at 12:25 pm

    Good work Jim!

    This makes a lot of sense of some of the DXO tests of mirrorless cameras. They have the Zony 16-35 zoom peaking wide open, which has never been my impression in the field, and I think they have the edges of the 70-200 getting worse as you stop down.

    It also makes sense of the Sony focusing algorithm which seems to open the aperture and then close it while focusing on some lenses. Maybe it’s getting quickly in the zone wide open, then achieving accurate focus stopped down?

    Reply
  2. Jack Hogan says

    February 20, 2016 at 12:54 pm

    Excellent demo of focus shift Jim.

    Jack

    Reply
  3. Michael Demeyer says

    February 21, 2016 at 12:25 am

    Jim,

    I presume this is all in the center of the field?

    Agree, this is a great way to understand the practical effect of focus shift, at least at close distance. Any idea how you might test it at mid- or long distance?

    Michael

    Reply
    • Jim says

      February 21, 2016 at 7:02 am

      I presume this is all in the center of the field?

      Yes. I’ve added the words “on-axis” to the post to make that clear. Thanks.

      Reply
    • Jim says

      February 21, 2016 at 7:04 am

      Any idea how you might test it at mid- or long distance?

      I’m in the market for a 10-meter focusing rail. Seriously, no.

      Jim

      Reply
  4. CarVac says

    February 21, 2016 at 6:06 am

    Oo, very nice.

    1000 cycles per picture height is a rather extreme threshold for depth of field though… at f/2.8 the Sony 90 would have no depth of field at all.

    Reply
    • Jim says

      February 23, 2016 at 9:27 am

      This refers to the Batis test, which has been updated and moved here:

      http://blog.kasson.com/?p=13369

      And, CarVac, I do take your meaning here.

      Jim

      Reply
  5. Max Berlin says

    February 22, 2016 at 6:29 pm

    Since I started Imatesting with a Sony, Novoflex adapters and a number of manual Leica and Contax lenses, I never knew enough to assume that focusing at wide open would get me a good result at f4 or 5.6 etc. I always had as part of my time consuming testing to refocus for each f-stop and take the best of 3 to get a valid Imatest score.

    Nikon is problematic for this because one has to use a loupe and live view to with live effect on to be certain that they are actually focusing on the right plane.

    The thing is though that depending on the subject distance and DOF that the OVF focus indicator can be accurate enough up to f4 as it does shift as your testing indicates but still falls within the DOF.

    But in reality I don’t worry about it too much anymore. If I want to shoot a live moving subject f2.8 – f4 works well enough and fast enough with Sigma Art and some Nikon lenses.

    So many photos (portraits especially) precisely taken with the Otii require a lot of post before I can deliver a full size image.

    Few clients can accept such high level of detail that exceeds their 10x ‘beauty mirrors’ they use to pick and pluck prior to the shoot.

    It’s easier to catch a nice expression with a lens that doesn’t show every flaw seen and previously ‘unseen’.

    Reply

Leave a Reply Cancel reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

May 2025
S M T W T F S
 123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
25262728293031
« Apr    

Articles

  • About
    • Patents and papers about color
    • Who am I?
  • How to…
    • Backing up photographic images
    • How to change email providers
    • How to shoot slanted edge images for me
  • Lens screening testing
    • Equipment and Software
    • Examples
      • Bad and OK 200-600 at 600
      • Excellent 180-400 zoom
      • Fair 14-30mm zoom
      • Good 100-200 mm MF zoom
      • Good 100-400 zoom
      • Good 100mm lens on P1 P45+
      • Good 120mm MF lens
      • Good 18mm FF lens
      • Good 24-105 mm FF lens
      • Good 24-70 FF zoom
      • Good 35 mm FF lens
      • Good 35-70 MF lens
      • Good 60 mm lens on IQ3-100
      • Good 63 mm MF lens
      • Good 65 mm FF lens
      • Good 85 mm FF lens
      • Good and bad 25mm FF lenses
      • Good zoom at 24 mm
      • Marginal 18mm lens
      • Marginal 35mm FF lens
      • Mildly problematic 55 mm FF lens
      • OK 16-35mm zoom
      • OK 60mm lens on P1 P45+
      • OK Sony 600mm f/4
      • Pretty good 16-35 FF zoom
      • Pretty good 90mm FF lens
      • Problematic 400 mm FF lens
      • Tilted 20 mm f/1.8 FF lens
      • Tilted 30 mm MF lens
      • Tilted 50 mm FF lens
      • Two 15mm FF lenses
    • Found a problem – now what?
    • Goals for this test
    • Minimum target distances
      • MFT
      • APS-C
      • Full frame
      • Small medium format
    • Printable Siemens Star targets
    • Target size on sensor
      • MFT
      • APS-C
      • Full frame
      • Small medium format
    • Test instructions — postproduction
    • Test instructions — reading the images
    • Test instructions – capture
    • Theory of the test
    • What’s wrong with conventional lens screening?
  • Previsualization heresy
  • Privacy Policy
  • Recommended photographic web sites
  • Using in-camera histograms for ETTR
    • Acknowledgments
    • Why ETTR?
    • Normal in-camera histograms
    • Image processing for in-camera histograms
    • Making the in-camera histogram closely represent the raw histogram
    • Shortcuts to UniWB
    • Preparing for monitor-based UniWB
    • A one-step UniWB procedure
    • The math behind the one-step method
    • Iteration using Newton’s Method

Category List

Recent Comments

  • JimK on Goldilocks and the three flashes
  • DC Wedding Photographer on Goldilocks and the three flashes
  • Wedding Photographer in DC on The 16-Bit Fallacy: Why More Isn’t Always Better in Medium Format Cameras
  • JimK on Fujifilm GFX 100S II precision
  • Renjie Zhu on Fujifilm GFX 100S II precision
  • JimK on Fuji 20-35/4 landscape field curvature at 23mm vs 23/4 GF
  • Ivo de Man on Fuji 20-35/4 landscape field curvature at 23mm vs 23/4 GF
  • JimK on Fuji 20-35/4 landscape field curvature at 23mm vs 23/4 GF
  • JimK on Fuji 20-35/4 landscape field curvature at 23mm vs 23/4 GF
  • Ivo de Man on Fuji 20-35/4 landscape field curvature at 23mm vs 23/4 GF

Archives

Copyright © 2025 · Daily Dish Pro On Genesis Framework · WordPress · Log in

Unless otherwise noted, all images copyright Jim Kasson.