• site home
  • blog home
  • galleries
  • contact
  • underwater
  • the bleeding edge

the last word

Photography meets digital computer technology. Photography wins -- most of the time.

You are here: Home / The Last Word / Testing high res camera/lens sharpness across cameras

Testing high res camera/lens sharpness across cameras

June 2, 2015 JimK 8 Comments

I’ve been reporting on the results of testing sharpness, as measured by MTF50 results from slanted-edge testing with the Otus 55/1.4 on the Nikon D810 and the Sony alpha 7R (a7R). For the last few days, I’ve posted nothing. That hasn’t been because I’ve stopped working. It’s been because I haven’t been able to produce reliable, repeatable, accurate results.

First off, there’s the inherent statistics of the camera and measurements. Take 16 pictures as I do, under the same conditions, and you’ll get 16 different results.  16 pictures is enough to get fairly accurate mean results, but you can’t cut down the number of pictures per data point without introducing the possibilities of chance materially skewing the results. The spreads were pretty tight with the strobe-illuminated images, but they are looser with continuous illumination.

The second thing is that focusing needs to be incredibly accurate to get meaningful comparisons at the Otus’s sharpest f-stop, which is about f/4. In fact, I have not yet devised a way to get repeatable results with the D810, using live view at f/1.4 and maximum magnification to focus on the Siemens star on the target.

It’s not a problem with the a7R, not so much because of the better live view resolution, but due to focus peaking, which is unavailable on the D810. Peaking works great on the Siemens star, and provides a microscope into whether the image is at its sharpest.

I’m not sure what to do about the focusing issue. One possibility is to look for other focusing targets, and print out an Imatest target with the Siemens star replaced by one that works better on the D810, In the past, I’ve had better luck focusing on the zone plate at the center of the ISO 12233 target than with the Siemens star.

Whether I focus on the star or a zone plate, in the absence of focus peaking, my strategy is to concentrate on an appropriate aliasing artifact, and find the focus point that maximizes the artifact. Kind of a perverse way to focus, but it works well.

Another possibility is to get a big display, connect it to the D810 with an HDMI cable, and use that for focusing.

Yet another potential solution, which I categorically reject, is to refocus each exposure. There are usually more than 200 photographs in  a series, and it’s maddeningly boring already — though less so since I realized I can use the D810’s built-in intervalometer to do each set of 16 exposures.

Trying to trace what’s behind the non-repeatibility of some of he measurements I’ve been making (and won’t show you; they confuse even me, and I made them) has caused me to examine many of the plots that Imatest does for each analysis. That has been instructive, if time-consuming.  I have found evidence of camera motion on both the D810 and a7R images, even in situations where you’d expect such motion to be minimal. Let me show you a few.

This image was made with the D810 in landscape orientation, looking at a (highlighted) vertical edge.

D0060-2_YL8_01_cpp

Now let’s look at a horizontal edge of the same exposure, which will suffer more from the second curtain of the shutter (the first curtain is not being used) since the shutter moves up and down on the D810:

D0060-2_YB9_01_cpp

See that little notch in the MTF curve, just above the Nyquist frequency? That looks for all the world like the effect of a mild anti-aliasing (AA) filter. But neither camera has such a filter, and this effect doesn’t occur in all the images from either camera.

Even some of the pictures that were made with the strobe show the effects of camera vibration, showing that the short-duration Einstein isn’t short enough to allow us to stop worrying about camera motion. Here’s the vertical edge from one such image, this time with the a7R:

A040-5_YR9_01_cpp

And here’s the horizontal edge from the very same exposure:

A040-5_YA8_01_cpp

If I didn’t know better, and hadn’t seen pictures from the a7R that don’t exhibit this effect, I’d swear it had a mild anisotropic AA filter.

It’s all very frustrating. Yet, I persist, since being able to make consistent, repeatable images of test charts is instructive as to ways to make consistent, repeatable images of the real world.

The Last Word

← a7R vs D810 resolution — moderate shutter speeds (Im)Precise focusing with Nikon D810 live view →

Comments

  1. Andre Y says

    June 2, 2015 at 4:53 pm

    You’ve probably thought of this already, but have you turned up sharpening in the camera picture controls to maximum? This gives you an almost peaking-like effect. You could boost contrast and maybe clarity or something named something like that to help. It will affect the JPEG preview of the RAW, but not the RAW itself.

    I also use an old 20-inch (1280×1024) monitor fed from the D810’s HDMI port when I do DSLR scanning of my film negatives, and that seems to help too.

    Reply
  2. Andre Y says

    June 2, 2015 at 4:56 pm

    Sorry one more thing: a LCD magnifier helps too. The Kinotehnik LCDVF 4N has a metal frame that latches into the same spots as the plastic screen protector, and the magnifier itself attaches to the frame with magnets. I’ve found it very useful in the field, and much sleeker solution than the Zacuto.

    Reply
    • Jim says

      June 2, 2015 at 5:45 pm

      I have a 14-diopter loupe — I take my glasses off.

      Jim

      Reply
  3. tex andrews says

    June 3, 2015 at 4:18 am

    As a technically ignorant person, I can safely say that i am too ignorant to realize that the following question may be silly or totally wrongheaded. therefore i’ll blithely ask it:

    Is it possible that we are now pushing up against the limits of “mechanical reliability” or predictability, which was always there but we just couldn’t see it before? Because mirror or mirrorless, there’s still this shutter jobby, which is mechanical. And sometimes there’s a small vibration and sometimes there isn’t.

    In Physics, as I in my pathetic way understand it, the tinier you get the weirder things are. You wouldn’t think we would be at that point with this engineering problem, but maybe there’s a metaphor/analogy here.

    Reply
    • Jean Pierre says

      June 3, 2015 at 10:08 am

      How I adore these tests! It show us, how the interaction of the macanical shutter with the electronic from the sensor-prozessor works, or not?!
      I am shure, that mecanical shutter speed has an impact for the sensor-prozessor, how long the sensor needs to “read” (analog-digital-converting) all information from all over the sensor and then to convert in digital values!
      Is 1/500 or 1/4000s not to short for the sensor prozessor? Does the snsor-prozessor need longer shutter speed?
      In my opinion, not all “blur” reaction is caused by camera-body shake! It can also be from mecanical shutter speed….

      as long as the sensor needs to “read” all information from all over the sensor and then to convert even in digital values.

      Reply
      • Jim says

        June 3, 2015 at 10:30 am

        On mechanical-shutter cameras, once the shutter is closed, it doesn’t matter how long it takes to convert the stored charges to bits, provided no material amount of charge leaks off, and that time is independent of the exposure time. Assuming the camera is well-designed, the readout doesn’t start until the shutter is closed.

        Jim

        Reply
        • Chris Livsey says

          June 4, 2015 at 5:39 am

          I wonder if at this level the “plain” cover glass, which does incorporate IR filtration, is ansiotropic just because of the manufacturing process (of which I am totally ignorant) or the coating?
          Is the coating applied in a sintered deposit type of way or curtain coated, as in laying down a film emulsion which would obviously be directional?

          Reply
  4. Jack Hogan says

    June 5, 2015 at 1:55 am

    Jim, the AA look of those curves seems strange to me too: I wonder if Imatest is not being a bit too happy-go-lucky in the higher frequencies, where accuracy dwindles. If you send me the two files above I can put them through MTF Mapper and get a second opinion.

    Reply

Leave a Reply Cancel reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

May 2025
S M T W T F S
 123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
25262728293031
« Apr    

Articles

  • About
    • Patents and papers about color
    • Who am I?
  • How to…
    • Backing up photographic images
    • How to change email providers
    • How to shoot slanted edge images for me
  • Lens screening testing
    • Equipment and Software
    • Examples
      • Bad and OK 200-600 at 600
      • Excellent 180-400 zoom
      • Fair 14-30mm zoom
      • Good 100-200 mm MF zoom
      • Good 100-400 zoom
      • Good 100mm lens on P1 P45+
      • Good 120mm MF lens
      • Good 18mm FF lens
      • Good 24-105 mm FF lens
      • Good 24-70 FF zoom
      • Good 35 mm FF lens
      • Good 35-70 MF lens
      • Good 60 mm lens on IQ3-100
      • Good 63 mm MF lens
      • Good 65 mm FF lens
      • Good 85 mm FF lens
      • Good and bad 25mm FF lenses
      • Good zoom at 24 mm
      • Marginal 18mm lens
      • Marginal 35mm FF lens
      • Mildly problematic 55 mm FF lens
      • OK 16-35mm zoom
      • OK 60mm lens on P1 P45+
      • OK Sony 600mm f/4
      • Pretty good 16-35 FF zoom
      • Pretty good 90mm FF lens
      • Problematic 400 mm FF lens
      • Tilted 20 mm f/1.8 FF lens
      • Tilted 30 mm MF lens
      • Tilted 50 mm FF lens
      • Two 15mm FF lenses
    • Found a problem – now what?
    • Goals for this test
    • Minimum target distances
      • MFT
      • APS-C
      • Full frame
      • Small medium format
    • Printable Siemens Star targets
    • Target size on sensor
      • MFT
      • APS-C
      • Full frame
      • Small medium format
    • Test instructions — postproduction
    • Test instructions — reading the images
    • Test instructions – capture
    • Theory of the test
    • What’s wrong with conventional lens screening?
  • Previsualization heresy
  • Privacy Policy
  • Recommended photographic web sites
  • Using in-camera histograms for ETTR
    • Acknowledgments
    • Why ETTR?
    • Normal in-camera histograms
    • Image processing for in-camera histograms
    • Making the in-camera histogram closely represent the raw histogram
    • Shortcuts to UniWB
    • Preparing for monitor-based UniWB
    • A one-step UniWB procedure
    • The math behind the one-step method
    • Iteration using Newton’s Method

Category List

Recent Comments

  • JimK on Goldilocks and the three flashes
  • DC Wedding Photographer on Goldilocks and the three flashes
  • Wedding Photographer in DC on The 16-Bit Fallacy: Why More Isn’t Always Better in Medium Format Cameras
  • JimK on Fujifilm GFX 100S II precision
  • Renjie Zhu on Fujifilm GFX 100S II precision
  • JimK on Fuji 20-35/4 landscape field curvature at 23mm vs 23/4 GF
  • Ivo de Man on Fuji 20-35/4 landscape field curvature at 23mm vs 23/4 GF
  • JimK on Fuji 20-35/4 landscape field curvature at 23mm vs 23/4 GF
  • JimK on Fuji 20-35/4 landscape field curvature at 23mm vs 23/4 GF
  • Ivo de Man on Fuji 20-35/4 landscape field curvature at 23mm vs 23/4 GF

Archives

Copyright © 2025 · Daily Dish Pro On Genesis Framework · WordPress · Log in

Unless otherwise noted, all images copyright Jim Kasson.