• site home
  • blog home
  • galleries
  • contact
  • underwater
  • the bleeding edge

the last word

Photography meets digital computer technology. Photography wins -- most of the time.

You are here: Home / GFX 100S / Fuji 80 mm f/1.7 on GFX 100S, Siemens star analysis

Fuji 80 mm f/1.7 on GFX 100S, Siemens star analysis

March 19, 2021 JimK 5 Comments

This is one in a series of posts on the Fujifilm GFX 100S. You should be able to find all the posts about that camera in the Category List on the right sidebar, below the Articles widget. There’s a drop-down menu there that you can use to get to all the posts in this series; just look for “GFX 100S”.

A couple of days ago I tested the Fujifilm 80 mm f/1.7 G-mount lens on the GFX 100S, using a Siemens star target. I presented the results as images, and let you all judge for yourselves. Some people are good at eyeballing images and sussing out what’s going on with the lens. Some like numbers. This post is for the latter group. This is my second test using the Imatest Siemens star analysis tool. I’m still feeling my way to find out what it’s good for. There are some obvious issues with MTF normalization — see the comments to this post — but I mentally assume that the curves top out at about one.

I moved closer to the target for this test, to about 7 meters, so that the star covered about 1800 pixels in each direction. That allows the Imatest software I used to estimate modulation transfer function (MTF) for low spatial frequencies. With the exception of sharpening, the rest of the test conditions were the same as before.

  • ISO 100
  • Manual exposure, varying the f-stops
  • Arca Swiss CA on RRS legs
  • 2-second self timer
  • Focusing at taking stop.
  • Three images at each test condition, picked the sharpest using Imatest.
  • Developed in Lr 10.2 with default settings except for white balance and sharpening.
  • White balanced to the lower right gray background of the Imatest Siemens star
  • Sharpening turned off.

MTF in several directions in the center at f/1.7:

 

This is very credible performance, showing some contrast right up to the Nyquist frequency.

Stopping down to f/2.8:

There is modest improvement.

Now f/4:

About the same

F/5.6:

A bit softer.

F/8:

Quite a bit softer.

That was pretty boring. How about in the upper right corner?

F/1.7:

 

There is a large disparity depending on the angle. I’ll provide a way to visualize what’s going on further down the page.

F/2.8:

Overall, the image is quite a bit sharper.

F/4:

 

Sharper yet.

F/5.6:

About the same.

F/8:

Still about the same.

The best overall f-stop looks to be f/4 or f/5.6.

Here’s a set of charts that will make it a bit easier to see which directions are good and which are not so good.

f/1.7:

These plots need a bit of explication. Here’s what Imatest has to say about them:

The plot,…shows MTF70 through MTF10 displayed in polar coordinates. Spatial frequency (cycles per pixel in this case) increases with radius. (This is the opposite of the image itself, where spatial frequency is inversely proportional to radius.)

This plot is most similar to the spider plot shown in Image Engineering digital camera tests and Digital Camera Resolution Measurement Using Sinusoidal Siemens Stars (Fig. 15), by C. Loebich, D. Wueller, B. Klingen, and A. Jaeger, IS&T, SPIE Electronic Imaging Conference 2007. MTF10 (the black octagon on the right) corresponds to the Rayleigh diffraction limit.

The better the lens, the further towards the outside of the plot the data is. We’re looking at the upper right corner of the frame, so, thinking in terms of compass headings, the line from the center of the image to the corner is roughly SW to NE, and the lense is resolving better along that line. The line perpendicular to that is in the NW/SE direction, and the lens is resolving worse along that line.

 

F/2.8:

F/4:

F/5.6:

 

F/8:

 

I wouldn’t place much stock in these results. I will do a more conventional slanted edge test and report on what I find.

GFX 100S

← GFX 100 PDAF banding is fixed Fujifilm 80/1.7 bokeh →

Comments

  1. Brandon Dube says

    March 19, 2021 at 3:21 pm

    MTF estimates approaching / running away to 3 / higher than 3. Yikes. The estimation algorithm is certainly il-conditioned, I wouldn’t trust any of it…

    Reply
    • JimK says

      March 19, 2021 at 3:28 pm

      The normalization appears to be screwy.

      Here’s what Imatest has to say on that subject:

      Normalization: MTF is normalized (set to 1.0) using either (1) MTF at the outer radius of each segment, (2) the maximum value of MTF at the outer radii of all segments, or (3) the difference between the lightest and darkest square near the pattern edge. Neigher case (1) nor (2) is ideal because the minimum spatial frequency is not as low as it should be for correct normalization. (The high to low spatial frequency ratio is only 10 or 20 for the star chart — much lower than for the Log Frequency or Log F-Contrast charts.) In general, normalizing MTF to the outer radius of the star increases MTF slightly above its true value. MTF should ideally be normalized to a lower spatial frequency. Case (3) should only be used with maximum contrast patterns.

      There appears to be no good answer.

      Reply
      • Brandon Dube says

        March 20, 2021 at 10:45 pm

        Not a very satisfying explanation from them, to me. Sam Thurman wrote a nice paper on using a Siemens’ Star for MTF measurement years ago and his approach did not have these problems.

        It’s not clear what they mean, either. The definition of MTF is that it is normalized by its value at the origin, which you could show is the integral over the entire PSF (understanding, there is no PSF measured here, but there are equivalent methods).

        I guess if they are just getting normalization this wrong there’s a chance the shape is right, but all the measures go to zero at 0.5 cy/px. Unless the lens is atrocious, that’s not right. Visually, the lens is not atrocious, so I’d be pretty confident to say that’s not right.

        Reply
        • JimK says

          March 21, 2021 at 6:30 am

          I’m going to test with a conventional slanted edge.

          Reply
  2. Ilya Zakharevich says

    March 19, 2021 at 7:14 pm

    I have no clue how to digest these plots. The center crop of Siemens star for ƒ/1.7 (one you provided a couple of days ago) shows MTF slowly descending to 0 at about 2×Nyquist frequency — as expected due to sensel sampling (then never recovering).

    (In diagonal directions, it shows a zero at √2×Nyquist ¹⁾, then slightly recovering, and going again to 0 near to 2×Nyquist. So it is compatible with the description above.)

      ¹⁾ ???!!! I’m puzzled how this de-Bayering algorithm works — it seems to ignore non-green pixels when recoving the luminance channel?!

    So it SEEMS that the slope of the MTF curve should be ½ of what the plot above shows. Do you have any comment?

    Reply

Leave a Reply Cancel reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

May 2025
S M T W T F S
 123
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
25262728293031
« Apr    

Articles

  • About
    • Patents and papers about color
    • Who am I?
  • How to…
    • Backing up photographic images
    • How to change email providers
    • How to shoot slanted edge images for me
  • Lens screening testing
    • Equipment and Software
    • Examples
      • Bad and OK 200-600 at 600
      • Excellent 180-400 zoom
      • Fair 14-30mm zoom
      • Good 100-200 mm MF zoom
      • Good 100-400 zoom
      • Good 100mm lens on P1 P45+
      • Good 120mm MF lens
      • Good 18mm FF lens
      • Good 24-105 mm FF lens
      • Good 24-70 FF zoom
      • Good 35 mm FF lens
      • Good 35-70 MF lens
      • Good 60 mm lens on IQ3-100
      • Good 63 mm MF lens
      • Good 65 mm FF lens
      • Good 85 mm FF lens
      • Good and bad 25mm FF lenses
      • Good zoom at 24 mm
      • Marginal 18mm lens
      • Marginal 35mm FF lens
      • Mildly problematic 55 mm FF lens
      • OK 16-35mm zoom
      • OK 60mm lens on P1 P45+
      • OK Sony 600mm f/4
      • Pretty good 16-35 FF zoom
      • Pretty good 90mm FF lens
      • Problematic 400 mm FF lens
      • Tilted 20 mm f/1.8 FF lens
      • Tilted 30 mm MF lens
      • Tilted 50 mm FF lens
      • Two 15mm FF lenses
    • Found a problem – now what?
    • Goals for this test
    • Minimum target distances
      • MFT
      • APS-C
      • Full frame
      • Small medium format
    • Printable Siemens Star targets
    • Target size on sensor
      • MFT
      • APS-C
      • Full frame
      • Small medium format
    • Test instructions — postproduction
    • Test instructions — reading the images
    • Test instructions – capture
    • Theory of the test
    • What’s wrong with conventional lens screening?
  • Previsualization heresy
  • Privacy Policy
  • Recommended photographic web sites
  • Using in-camera histograms for ETTR
    • Acknowledgments
    • Why ETTR?
    • Normal in-camera histograms
    • Image processing for in-camera histograms
    • Making the in-camera histogram closely represent the raw histogram
    • Shortcuts to UniWB
    • Preparing for monitor-based UniWB
    • A one-step UniWB procedure
    • The math behind the one-step method
    • Iteration using Newton’s Method

Category List

Recent Comments

  • bob lozano on The 16-Bit Fallacy: Why More Isn’t Always Better in Medium Format Cameras
  • JimK on Goldilocks and the three flashes
  • DC Wedding Photographer on Goldilocks and the three flashes
  • Wedding Photographer in DC on The 16-Bit Fallacy: Why More Isn’t Always Better in Medium Format Cameras
  • JimK on Fujifilm GFX 100S II precision
  • Renjie Zhu on Fujifilm GFX 100S II precision
  • JimK on Fuji 20-35/4 landscape field curvature at 23mm vs 23/4 GF
  • Ivo de Man on Fuji 20-35/4 landscape field curvature at 23mm vs 23/4 GF
  • JimK on Fuji 20-35/4 landscape field curvature at 23mm vs 23/4 GF
  • JimK on Fuji 20-35/4 landscape field curvature at 23mm vs 23/4 GF

Archives

Copyright © 2025 · Daily Dish Pro On Genesis Framework · WordPress · Log in

Unless otherwise noted, all images copyright Jim Kasson.